On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S., Oksana Markarova
- NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte
- Democratic Sen. Mark Kelly of Arizona
- Republican Rep. Tony Gonzales of Texas
- Dr. Jerome Adams, the former U.S. surgeon general during President Trump’s first term
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: President Trump invites Russia’s Vladimir Putin to America, his first visit to U.S. soil in a decade. After months of Russia’s skirting cease-fire offers, while continuing their brutal onslaught in Ukraine, President Trump skipped past his own sanctions deadline and instead invited Putin to Alaska.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): I will be meeting very shortly with President Putin.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We will hear from Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova about what her country needs to agree to a cease-fire. And we will ask NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte what any deal might mean for European security.
We will ask Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly and Texas Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales, two lawmakers from border states, how the fresh infusion of cash from Trump’s massive domestic policy bill is affecting mass deportation efforts.
Finally: The Trump administration says it will slash funding for mRNA vaccine research, an emerging field used in COVID vaccines that also showed promise in treating cancer and HIV. We will get analysis from Dr. Jerome Adams, who was surgeon general in Trump’s first term.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
President Trump has decided to bring Vladimir Putin in from the cold, ending isolation of the Russian leader, an accused war criminal. His hope is to persuade Putin to finally do the thing he’s refused, end Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. The two leaders will meet in Alaska, another part of the former Russian empire.
With the future of European security on the line, Western leaders rushed to get their word in, sending top advisers to meet with Vice President Vance in the United Kingdom. And they are planning to convene top diplomats tomorrow.
In the meantime, President Trump is sending his envoy Keith Kellogg to Ukraine, as President Zelenskyy says his country will not simply gift territory to Russia.
We begin this morning with Ukraine’s ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markarova.
Good to have you back here, Ambassador.
OKSANA MARKAROVA (Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States): Good morning in America, and thank you for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, President Zelenskyy has made clear he’s not just going to give away land to Russia. Kyiv has to be part of the negotiations. And he has said a cease-fire needs to happen first.
Do you expect a cease-fire this week?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Well, that’s something that all Ukraine prays for President Trump to be effective and to have great results.
And, as you know, since the discussions here with President Trump, Ukraine agreed to full cease-fire, to partial cease-fires, to any type of cease- fires, because, again, let’s remind everyone, Ukraine did not start this war. Putin started this war in 2014. He continued with full-fledged invasion in 2022.
And it’s Ukrainian citizens, Ukrainian cities, Ukrainian defenders on the front lines, Ukrainian children who suffer every day. So, yes, we want Putin to stop. And we really are hopeful that this push from President Trump and the sanction packages which are on the table and secondary sanctions which are already implemented against those who help Russia will convince President Putin that this is time for him to finally stop his aggression.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But President Trump did blow past that deadline to put more sanctions on Russia, and instead offered this meeting.
We know that the White House says it’s a one-on-one with Vladimir Putin at Putin’s request, but that the president’s open to some sort of trilateral meeting with President Zelenskyy. Is there anything being planned to bring Ukraine to the table?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Well, Margaret, I can say, sometimes, diplomacy requires different formats, different meetings. And, again, we appreciate President Trump not only pushing for the end of this war, but, as you saw, Vice President Vance has been in Europe negotiating, discussing, having these very constructive meetings with our delegation, but also European leaders.
Now, with regard to President Zelenskyy, he has been since day one of this horrible aggression committed to peace. And we have shown that he is ready to be anywhere to advance the agenda of peace. So, if needed, President Zelenskyy, of course, will be present at the meetings. We have been very open about it, but let’s see how this will go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But he’s not planning to be in Alaska on Friday?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: If he will be planning to do that, we will be there. But…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. But you’re waiting for that.
We do know that envoy Keith Kellogg is being sent to Kyiv to speak with the Ukrainian government. So is – what is his role here? Is he going to be sort of conveying messages back and forth? What is it that needs to be negotiated in Kyiv right now?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Well, special envoy Kellogg has been a very important part of U.S. team that works with us on a regular basis.
Because, again, I mean, we’re all focused on the upcoming summit, but there is so much more that we do together, the investment deal that not only we signed, but we are actually developing that strategic opportunity to cooperate between our countries on economic front, the weapons provision from the United States, but also buying American weapons and producing together, big drone deal and other deals that our presidents discussed together.
So there is a lot on our bilateral U.S.-Ukraine agenda, which, of course, all is at this moment related to horrible war, but not only. So we are always glad to see Keith Kellogg in Kyiv.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But what we know from our reporting is that envoy Witkoff, Steve Witkoff, went to Moscow. He was described – described to him was a Russian idea for some kind of settlement of the war, and it – include carving up parts of Ukraine.
Then, on Friday, President Trump spoke publicly about what had happened, and he said President Zelenskyy has to get everything he needs ready because – quote – “He’s going to have to get ready to sign something, and I think he’s working hard to get that done.”
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is he going to sign? What has been proposed?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Special envoy Witkoff is a special envoy on Russia, and he works with that counterpart. And we work with vice president, with Secretary Rubio, with special envoy Kellogg, and with all team and Secretary Bessent and others on everything on our bilateral agenda.
Now, President Zelenskyy has been very clear. Ukraine is committed to peace. We will be very constructive in all of our discussions. At the same time, we have to again acknowledge the facts. It’s Russia that attacked us. It’s Russia that illegally occupied Crimea and other territories since 2022.
We do have the main bible of the country, the Constitution of Ukraine, which clearly lists in Article 133 that Ukraine comprises of and says what is it comprised of. Now, we all understand the reality on the ground, and we are ready to discuss how to end this war. And that’s why cease-fire…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: … as a step has always been so important to stop the killing, something that President Trump has put on the table as early as February.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: So let’s stop the killings and let’s get to diplomacy. That’s something Ukraine always was ready to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re pointing to your Constitution because your point is, the president can’t just give away land. It has to actually go and be considered because of how your Constitution…
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: The president of any country is a guarantor of the Constitution.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vladimir Putin’s Constitution, though, now has these areas he’s annexed from your country in his Constitution.
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Yes. And everyone knows and 142 countries at the U.N. clearly voted that that was illegal, unprovoked move on his part.
And the court as early as March 2022, international court, has actually told Russia to stop their so-called special military operation and get out from Ukrainian territory.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Russia holds about 22 percent of Ukrainian territory, I believe, at this point. Is your concern that, at this negotiating table in Alaska, Vladimir Putin’s going to try to talk his way into further land seizures?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Well, President Putin lied in 2022 that he was not going to attack Ukraine. Then he lied a number of times since 2022 that it wasn’t him who bombed Mariupol maternity hospital or it wasn’t him who abducts and kills, kidnaps Ukrainian children and everything else.
Now, I’m positive that President Trump and everyone here in the United States – and we’re so grateful to American people for all the support. They understand that the implications of how this war will end is so much bigger than just about Ukraine. It is existential for us.
But the concept of buffer zones or whatever, these outdated, old concepts from the previous century, they do not work anymore. The front line in the east and south of Ukraine is the front line between evil and good. And the question is when that front line is going to be. Is it going to be on our territory? Is it going to be on our borders? Or is it going to be in Europe and everywhere, where it will affect Europe, U.S. and other?
So, we just have to – it’s not just about land. It’s about the principles and values. And judging by the recent decisions, including the sanctions on India for supporting Russia war machine, including on those sanctions that have been prepared, I am confident that U.S. will be coming from the position of strength, peace through strength.
And that will allow us together to find a solution to stop Russia’s aggression.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador Markarova, thank you for your time today.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to NATO Secretary-General Mark Rutte, who joins us from The Hague in the Netherlands.
Welcome back to Face the Nation.
MARK RUTTE (NATO Secretary-General): Margaret, it’s good to be back on the show. Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning.
Well, Mr. Secretary-General, big picture here, is Russia’s Vladimir Putin still a direct threat to the Western alliance, or is he showing some sign of dropping his aggression?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: He is still the main threat to the Western alliance. There’s no doubt.
And I think it is very good that President Trump will test him. And we will see how far he can get on Friday starting this process. He basically broke the deadlock, President Trump, in February, starting the dialogue with Putin. I think that was crucial.
We had a great NATO summit under his leadership, committing to 5 percent defense spending, so that there is a clear signal to our main threat, which is Russia, that we are serious. And then he opened the floodgates three weeks ago of American lethal weapons to be delivered into Ukraine, coordinated by NATO, and, of course, the secondary sanctions.
He started them with putting them on India, which is one of the biggest buyers of Russian oil and gas.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that is certainly the groundwork being laid.
The concern is, of course, as you know, among some critics that, in this conference room in Alaska, we’re going to see a 1938 moment, where, in an attempt to immediately halt a war, the groundwork is laid for an even bigger conflict because of concessions that are made.
Are you comfortable with Ukraine being excluded from these negotiations on Friday?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: What will happen on Friday is testing Putin by President Trump.
And I commend him for the fact that he organized this meeting. I think it is important. And, obviously, when it comes to peace talks, the cease-fire, and what happens after that on territories, on security guarantees for Ukraine, Ukraine will have to be and will be involved.
But, on Friday, it is important to see how serious Putin is. And the only one who can do that is President Trump. So it’s really crucial that the meeting takes place. It will not be the final say on this. There will not be the final deal on this. Of course, Ukraine will have to be involved and Europe.
But it is important to start the next phase of this process, putting pressure on the Russians, exactly as President Trump has been doing over the last six months.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have been on these calls with President Trump. And I know that he briefed you on what envoy Witkoff discussed with Vladimir Putin this week.
Can you tell us, is Russia still demanding that Ukraine drop its bid for NATO membership?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Well, obviously, I cannot go into all the details. That would be strange.
But let me assure you the following, that we are all on the same page, the Americans, the Europeans, and Ukraine, that, when it comes to the geostrategic position of Ukraine in the future, when it comes to whatever is the size of the Ukrainian military, when it comes to NATO’s posture on the eastern flank in countries like Latvia and Lithuania, Estonia, Finland, Poland, that Putin has absolutely no say on any of these issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you have said in the past there need to be strong security guarantees for Ukraine. Who is going to provide that if it’s not NATO?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Well, obviously, this is a discussion which is going on for some months now. We all pray for the moment when the cease-fire is there and hopefully a successful peace deal is done, but at least a cease-fire.
And the Europeans, led by the French and the Brits – NATO has been involved in those talks, but clearly led by Macron of France and Starmer, the prime minister of the United Kingdom, in close cooperation with the U.S., are discussing post the cease-fire, post the peace deal, how do we make sure that the security guarantees are in place?
And this will be important also post-next Friday, if this would lead, the Friday session, to more serious peace talks, because, when it comes to territory, it will always go hand in hand with the security guarantees for Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I understand that there were NATO representatives listening in that meeting with Vice President Vance and European national security advisers yesterday.
NATO has been coordinating the delivery of weapons purchased by NATO members to help out Ukraine. About a billion in military aid, I understand, has been facilitated from the U.S. to Ukraine. Are there plans that those weapons deliveries will continue, regardless of what happens on Friday?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Absolutely. They will continue.
So we had the first two packages committed by the Dutch and then by the Scandinavians. I expect further announcements in the coming days and weeks. And this is crucial, basically, President Trump, as I said, opening the floodgates of the lethal military aid into Ukraine again, paid by the Europeans in Canada, which I think is only logical and fair.
And this process has started, of course, on top of what the Europeans are already doing, including investing in the defense industrial base in Ukraine. And, as you said, NATO is coordinating all of this through our command in Wiesbaden, making sure that Ukraine has what it needs to stay in the fight and be in the best possible position when it comes to negotiations on a cease-fire/a peace deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And that’s not up for negotiation on Friday?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: My absolute conviction on Friday…
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: … is that this is President Trump making sure that Putin is serious.
And if he is not, then it will stop there. If he is serious, then, from Friday onwards, the process will continue, Ukraine getting involved, the Europeans being involved. And the U.S. is already coordinating, like you said, last night, in London with Foreign Minister Lammy of the United Kingdom, senior officials from NATO and European countries and the European Commission with the vice president to make sure that we are all on the same page.
Putin will never, ever be able to divide the alliance. The biggest foreign policy success of President Trump is the NATO summit, a united NATO, a united alliance, and Putin will never get in between us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we have to take President Trump at his word.
And, on Friday, when he spoke in front of the cameras, he said there will be some swapping of territories to the betterment of both Ukraine and Russia. I mean, you know Ukraine does not hold Russian land.
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Well, obviously…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Russia has about 20 percent of Ukraine. What is he talking about?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Clearly, what will be on the table when real peace talks/the cease-fire discussion will take place is this issue of, on the one hand, security guarantees, on the other hand, how to deal with the factual situation that the Russians are holding at this moment Ukrainian territory.
Crucially important here is that, when it comes to this holding of Ukrainian territory, that there might be a factual situation that they are doing this, but that we can never accept that in a legal sense, in a – this is called a de jure sense.
As you know, the U.S. hosted embassies with Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia between 1940 and 1991, acknowledging that the Soviet Union was controlling those territories, but never accepting in a legal sense, in a de jure sense that fact.
So all these issues will be on the table hopefully post-Friday if Putin is serious, and Putin then has to commit to sit down with Zelenskyy. He cannot do this through President Trump. In the end, it has to be, as President Trump has stated himself, a three-way conversation, at least, with the Europeans heavily involved.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, do I understand what you’re saying here correctly? When you are talking about legal recognition versus de facto, are you saying that, basically, the world is preparing to allow Russia to hold on to Crimea, the Donbass, the eastern part of Ukraine, but then just not legally recognize it?
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: No, what I’m saying is that, in the end, the issue of the fact that the Russians are controlling at this moment factually a part of Ukraine has to be on the table, that any discussion going forward from there will be with Ukrainians deciding on what they want to do in terms of…
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, because that sounds like – because that sounds like you’re saying they don’t have to withdraw their troops.
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Obviously, they have to. But, factually, they are controlling a part of Ukraine at this moment.
As you said and as Ukrainians have said before, if a cease-fire discussion takes place as soon as possible, and hopefully negotiations on a peace deal, there will be the debate on how to take that forward, starting at the present line of contact.
But it is crucial to know that, when it comes to the future geopolitical situation of Ukraine, their sovereignty, there will be no infringement on that, and that it’s always Ukraine itself deciding on what they want to do or not want to do in terms of a peace deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Secretary Rutte, thank you for your time.
NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL MARK RUTTE: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly, who joins us this morning from Tucson.
Senator, President Trump could lift some, but not all sanctions on Russia unless Congress agrees to do it. Is there any appetite to lift them?
SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-Arizona): I don’t have an appetite to lift them.
Putin continues to execute an illegal war, where he is intentionally killing women, children, old people. I visited Ukraine several months ago, went to a veterans hospital, where nurses there just witnessed horrible atrocities.
So, I think, if anything, Margaret, we need to continue to put the pressure on Putin, on Russia, make them pay for this illegal war, attacking our NATO ally.
And I have got to say, I know you talked to Mark Rutte earlier and the ambassador about the visit on Friday in Alaska. And, Margaret, I hope we got something out of this. Putin is a war criminal. This is not a show of strength to allow him to fly into the United States, to land here to negotiate with our president.
I don’t know for certain. I don’t know what was the ground rules that were set for this negotiation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: But I would expect that this administration should have extracted something for this visit.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re trying to seek those details ourselves.
Multiple intelligence officials have told my CBS colleague Jim LaPorta that there was a U.S. directive in recent weeks that all Russia-Ukraine peace negotiation information should not be shared with our partners who are part of the Five Eyes, countries like Australia and the U.K. that share information with us.
You sit on the Intelligence Committee. Were you aware of that directive? And what does it indicate?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I was not aware of it.
We have a special relationship with those Five Eyes partners. And I think that relationship makes all of us collectively safer. So, if it was up to me, we would continue to share that information with those allies.
Restricting information about Russia-Ukraine, about the situation in Iran, about what’s going on in Gaza or the Western Pacific with China just makes us all more less safe. So, I was not aware of it, but it does not seem like an appropriate thing to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, I have more to talk to you about in regard to immigration and other domestic matters. We’re going to have to take a break and come back to do that.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will have more with Senator Mark Kelly, Texas Republican Tony Gonzales, and a conversation with former Surgeon General Jerome Adams about the future of vaccine research.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We return to our conversation now with Arizona Senator Mark Kelly.
Senator, I know you were at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility last week, and you posted about it, including a meeting you had with a detained woman who I understand has a son who is a United States Marine. And she had been in the U.S. for two decades, was babysitting her grandson on her son’s base when she was detained.
Are you asking or somehow managing to get her to be an exception to the rule to allow her to stay in the United States?
SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Margaret, I spent about three hours or so over at the Eloy Detention Center. And I met with two – two women, one was Maria, the one you just mentioned, whose son was a U.S. Marine, whose daughter-in-law was a U.S. Marine, and the daughter-in-law needed to have an operation, so she came from New Jersey. She’s lived in the country for 20 years. And then she winds up in CBP custody.
I asked her about when her son graduated from boot camp and how that made her felt, and she started crying and said it was so proud – she was so proud that her son was a U.S. Marine. He’s about to re-enlist. This woman is no threat to society.
I also met a – met a business owner who’s been in the United States for over 20 years. She’s got 70 employees. She’s got three restaurants. She’s about to open another one. Again, this is a mom, her daughter’s a U.S. citizen, her mother is a U.S. citizen, sister is a U.S. citizen, husband’s a U.S. citizen. Neither of these women are a threat to society.
And what I saw at Eloy were a lot of moms and grandmothers who could be out with their families, who could be going to work as they go through whatever immigration process they’re in. And for Maria, the mom of the Marine, there is a process that for a – somebody on active duty, that their parents have a process to become a permanent resident and eventually a U.S. citizen.
And this – this is not where we should be. And I don’t think this is what the American people wanted.
Margaret, the border security issue under President Biden was not working. And I pushed the administration on that. But we have now swung drastically in another direction. And I don’t think this is what the American people want either.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, to your point, though, President Trump won your state by almost six points in November, and you know immigration was one of his top promises to go ahead with this crackdown. And you did say you want more done. Is there a benefit to Arizona that just came from this massive infusion from taxpayer dollars into mass deportations, or are you saying here that these – these personal cases show that the entire process is flawed?
SENATOR MARK KELLY: I think right now the – there’s – I think you have to draw a distinction with what is going on at the border and enforces border security and making sure fentanyl isn’t coming through our southern border, but also the smuggling of migrants. That wasn’t working. But rounding up people in their communities and mass deportation and ICE agents showing up masked at schools, I have been trying to help out a kid that’s in detention, and he was 14 years old. He lives in Chandler, Arizona. And he was picked up going to school.
I had another situation here with a kid who was on his little league trip in a baseball tournament, Border Patrol pulls over the vehicle, identifies the brown kid. He winds up in lockup for a week. Now, we were able to get him out. He was 13 years old. On a baseball trip.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR MARK KELLY: This isn’t what the American people wanted, and I don’t think it’s consistent with our values.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Senator, this is a really important and emotional issue. And we’re going to have to leave it there for today. But I want to have another one with you as you continue to gather information about how this infusion of money is being spent, $45 billion to expand ICE detention facilities.
And we’re going to pick up that conversation with Texas Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales, who joins us now from San Antonio.
Congressman, welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
You just heard Senator Kelly describe the frustration he experienced and the personal stories he witnessed in these ICE detention facilities. Given your oversight role, have you had similar concerns?
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES (R-TX): Good morning, Margaret.
And while I appreciate Senator Kelly’s service, the part that he’s getting wrong with ICE is for every sad story of someone being deported, there’s ten sad stories of Americans that have had their lives turned upside down because of illegal immigration. And to be demonizing ICE agents is not right. Right now they’re – ICE agents are – they’ve had 1,000 percent increase on attacks. Yet, they’re seeing a huge increase in amount of people that want to serve. There’s currently 10,000 vacancies and they are nearly 100,000 applications.
I do think there’s a balance where we need to go after these convicted criminals, the worse of the worse, and be able to tackle some of that. But we should be encouraging the – this – this enforcement of law, not these sanctuary cities that allow the lawlessness to take place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No. And I think the senator was talking about how it just wasn’t working during the last administration. So, he was not praising that past system.
But in terms of how the current one is being operated, I know you had raised concern that those being mass deported were not necessarily the worst of the worst and violent offenders. I know that because you issued that letter to ICE. And the data that came back showed that most of the convictions were for traffic or immigration offenses, not violent criminals. Less than 1 percent of the convictions of those deported were for homicide. Only 1.2 percent were for sexual assault.
So, doesn’t that speak, though, to – to what Senator Kelly was saying, which is, it’s not the criminals, it’s the grandmas?
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: Well, he’s just telling the grandma story. He’s not talking about, you know, how DHS rounded up pedophiles and some other violent actors in Los Angeles and throughout the country. So, you have to tell all sides to it.
But you hit it right on the head earlier when you said immigration is a very emotional conversation. And it’s where we have to get it right. You have to separate those that may be in a – in a different situation than the worst of the worst.
What I am encouraged to see is, I am encouraged that after we have passed the one big, beautiful bill and have given DHS $45 billion, that they are now creating these task forces and going after very strategic operations that take out the pedophiles, the murderers.
Numbers matter, but more specifically who is being detained. Traffic violations don’t excite me as much and I don’t think keep communities as safe as taking out, you know, murderers and convicted criminals that are a danger to all – all communities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do I hear you saying that this new money will now allow them to actually focus on violent offenders instead of just anyone they encounter who did, at one point, enter illegally?
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: Yes. And this is what I’m seeing, is I’m seeing a mix of these self-deportations. Secretary Noem has been very active. She’s – essentially has traveled to Central and South American talking to a lot of heads of state, and a lot of folks are self-deporting back to these countries to the tune of hundreds of thousands. I think what that does is that alleviates some of the stress on DHS essentially to put numbers on the board and instead create these task forces to go after these bad actors.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: To me, that’s the secret sauce. You create these task forces and get – get after the worse of the worse.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. We do see, though, in the courts that the Trump administration is trying to do away with limits on child detention. One of ICE’s only family detention facilities is in your district in Texas. And you did vote for the one big, beautiful bill. And it includes a provision that allows families with children to be held indefinitely, which contradicts that longstanding precedent of putting a 20-day limit on detaining children. Do you think that needs to be changed in future legislation? Should there be limits on detaining kids?
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: Possibly. I mean, the legislative (ph) piece is a much more long road. What I’ve seen under both the Biden administration and the Trump administration is that it’s – it’s a – it’s a delicate balance, right? How do you keep families together? How do you make sure that there – there is coordination to what – to what country they’re going to.
But what we don’t want to see is somebody indefinitely held without having due process. But what we do want to see is after that due process is completed, that they’re immediately removed in a humane environment.
And, you know, I visited these facilities under both administrations, and I’ve never had a problem with ICE facilities. They’ve always been – allowed me to view everything I wanted. I’ve taken pictures. I’ve done videos. I’ve talked – I’ve spoken to people that were there. And I think that’s the important part. Our government needs to be transparent to what’s happening.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And – and we would love to take our cameras into some of those facilities if you could help us do that, sir, because we don’t have that access. And I know a number of those immigration advocates have – have said that. They are frustrated they don’t have more access now to – to share with the public what they’re hearing.
But now I do want to ask about this Fort Bliss facility, an Army base that’s partially in your district. I understand they’re trying to turn it into a place with tents, soft sided tents, to hold 1,000 individuals under ICE custody. Doesn’t blurring the lines between law enforcement and the military start to get us into uncomfortable territory?
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: It could. But let me – let me give you some of the details on that facility in particular.
One, that – the soft-sided facility is located right next door to the current ICE facility in El Paso. So, while it’s on Fort Bliss, it really, in many cases, is managed by ICE.
The other – some other details. There’s already over 100,000 illegal aliens in that facility. By the end of the week I expect that number will raise up to over 1,000. And then in the coming weeks it will raise to several thousand.
Now, the price tag, $1.2 billion. I am a little concerned that the – the initial cost is $230 million that the Department of Defense is paying for. And so, that’s where I don’t – Fort Bliss is the Swiss army knife of the – – of the Army. They do a fantastic job of whatever mission gets sent their way. But I don’t want to see the Department of Defense get stuck with the bill, if you will.
These is where the details matter. We just passed this $45 billion for – for – for border security. I’m hoping some of those funds reimburse the Department of Defense for their efforts.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the mixing of military and law enforcement, that part, besides the accounting, doesn’t that make you uncomfortable?
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: Yes, it – it does – well, you have to get it right. You know, if it’s on base and, you know, if there’s a collaboration, the – the – the fact is, it makes it a streamline process because of how close it is to the airfield, Biggs Airfield. So, that, in turn, makes a safety issue and it makes it just – just a cleaner effort. So, there’s a balance there. But I don’t want it – long term, I don’t want to see soldiers operating in this space. I don’t think they want to be doing that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES: But the fact that they’re in there now, it’s a seamless transition right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. All right, Tony Gonzales. Congressman, appreciate your time.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to former Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams, who served in the first Trump administration.
Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
JEROME ADAMS, M.D., (Former U.S. Surgeon General): Thank you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about this tragic shooting Friday in Atlanta. I understand there were at least four CDC buildings that were shot at. And our colleagues are reporting, investigators are looking at the motives, including that the suspect believed he was sick as a result of the Covid vaccine. What do you make of the incident itself, as well as the broader impact on the health workers there on the grounds of the CDC?
JEROME ADAMS: Yes. Well, first off, on behalf of the American people, I want to say thank you to the dedicated professionals at the CDC and to all public health and medical workers across this country.
And I also want to honor Officer David Rose, who made the ultimate sacrifice while protecting those families and people who worked at the CDC. My heartfelt condolences go out to his family, his friends and his colleagues.
And finally, want to be clear because our secretary of HHS has not been. Violence is never the answer, no matter your level of frustration or anger with the system. We have to find better, more peaceful ways to express our concerns and work towards solutions.
How you respond to a crisis defines a leader. And, quite frankly, Secretary Kennedy has failed in his first major test in this regard. It took him over 18 hours to issue a tepid response to these horrific shootings. And that’s not even considering how his inflammatory rhetoric in the past has actually contributed to a lot of what’s been going on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those are some strong words. I mean, the secretary did issue a statement saying, “no one should face violence while working to protect the health of others.” You think he needs to more directly condemn this shooter and his alleged motivations? I mean there has been, to be fair, a lot of angry rhetoric against health officials for years now. Why do you think the secretary himself needs to address it?
JEROME ADAMS: Well, the secretary, before he was considering running for president or secretary, was involved in an outbreak in American Samoa where 83 people died, over 70 of them children, in response to a measles outbreak, which local officials on the ground there said he helped inflame.
As president, he said, I will drain the cesspool at the CDC and hold people responsible when he was running for president. He made this statement just last year. Unfortunately, someone beat him to trying to hold people responsible.
And again, as secretary of HHS, it took him 18 hours to respond to this shooting, and he still has not unequivocally condemned the violence. He said no one should be harmed while working to protect the public. There is an out there, Margaret. If you don’t believe that people are working to protect the public, then that means it’s OK to commit violence, at least in some people’s eyes.
I’m upset because people at the CDC were calling me while this was going on asking for cover that they couldn’t get from their secretary.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I think what you were referring to are some of what Secretary Kennedy said when he was a presidential candidate.
JEROME ADAMS: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But even in office, the FDA commissioner, on this program, said he wrote an article, “why the people don’t trust the CDC.” The secretary himself has said in the past, “the CDC is a cesspool of corruption.”
You, to be clear, want the leaders of our health institutions to come out and say they have confidence in the CDC now?
JEROME ADAMS: Exactly. I wrote a recent op-ed that – that is in “Stat news” where I talked about this. As leaders, we have to be responsible with what we’re saying and how we’re saying it. We have to understand, people are listening. And when you call the CDC a cesspool, when you say I will hold people responsible, when you make claims that have been proven false time and time again about the safety and efficacy of vaccines, that can cause unintended consequences.
And so, while I don’t know Secretary Kennedy personally, and I don’t want to make – make assertions about his character, I will say, based on his actions and his rhetoric, he is – he’s adding, he’s fanning the flames that lead to situations like we saw at the CDC.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about health policy because days earlier, Secretary Kennedy made an announcement that the U.S. is halting $500 million for vaccine research into that technology known as mRNA. You’re very familiar with it because it was used during Operation Warp Speed to very quickly get that Covid vaccine.
Secretary Kennedy said, though, mRNA vaccines, quote, “don’t work against upper respiratory infections.” Do you know what he means? And what does stopping this research do for pandemic preparations?
JEROME ADAMS: Well, that’s simply not true. We know that – that by the most conservative estimates over 2 million lives have been saved because of mRNA technology. It helped us develop Covid-19 vaccines in record time. And it’s, quite frankly, President Trump’s greatest achievement. It’s fascinating to me in this conversation about whether he should receive the Nobel Prize for something, the thing that he should be considered for the Nobel Prize for, his health secretary is trying to undermine.
For folks who may not be familiar though, Margaret, mRNA stands for messenger mRNA. It’s a natural molecule that’s in all of our bodies. It’s like a recipe card that tells your body how to make a protein. And this idea, again, helps us develop vaccines and new treatments for everything from cancer, melanoma, which my wife has, to HIV, to better flu vaccines and zika. These – these are advances that are not going to happen now. People are going to die because we’re cutting short funding for this technology.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it’s interesting, you talk about President Trump’s great achievement there, because he was asked by my colleague, Nancy Cordes, about Operation Warp Speed, and this is what he said this week.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VC)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Operation Warp Speed was, whether you’re a Republican or a Democrat, considered one of the most incredible things ever done in this country. The efficiency, the – the way it was done, the distribution, everything about it was – has been amazing.
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: What would have happened in 2020 if we didn’t have mRNA vaccines?
JEROME ADAMS: If we did not have mRNA vaccines, the best experts at the time, Bill Gates, Tony Fauci, were saying it would have taken at least 18 to 24 additional months to get a vaccine. The record before that, Margaret, was six years to get a vaccine using the technology that Secretary Kennedy said he wants to go back to, whole virus technology.
And so, as I mentioned, by the most conservative estimates, at least 2 million lives were saved. Many people stated up to 20 million lives were saved because of these vaccines. It is President Trump’s greatest achievement bar none.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Adams, I appreciate your time.
We reached out to the Health and Human Services Department to ask if they wanted to respond to the former surgeon general’s views on that CDC shooting. HHS referred us back to the secretary’s earlier statement.
We’ll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, met yesterday in Spain with Qatar’s prime minister, all in pursuit of a deal to end Israel’s war in the Gaza Strip and to free the hostages.
Our Debora Patta has the latest from Israel.
(BEGIN VT)
DEBORA PATTA (voice over): For 674 days, Einav Zangauker has campaigned for her son Matan’s freedom from Hamas captivity.
Behind her, 80 percent of Israelis who want the war to end. Among them, hostage relatives who are angry and terrified.
LISHAY MIRAN-LAVI, WIFE OF HOSTAGE OMRI MIRAN: But my husband is still there. Every invasion, every bullet, every airstrike could cost him his life.
DEBORA PATTA (voice over): Prime Minister Netanyahu’s new war plan includes seizing Gaza City and occupying the whole territory in a bid to disarm Hamas and hand control to Arab forces, despite no agreement with any Arab nation.
But Israel Defense Force’s chief of staff reportedly believes it will endanger the hostages and their exhausted troops.
Veteran Israeli hostage negotiator Gershon Baskin told us there is still a two-week window to negotiate a ceasefire.
GERSHON BASKIN, VETERAN ISRAELI HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Once the war expands, it’s going to be very difficult to turn it back. And a word of warning to Hamas, if the hostages die from starvation, the Americans are going to tell Israel, do whatever you need to do.
DEBORA PATTA: So, who is stopping a deal?
GERSHON BASKIN: Well, until now it has been mostly Netanyahu and his government. President Trump needs to tell Netanyahu, I said for many months I want this war to end. End it. Do it.
DEBORA PATTA (voice over): Well over half a million Palestinians fled Gaza City as the IDF tried to root out Hamas. But hundreds of thousands returned during the January ceasefire. Like Abraham Arabia, who had this plea for President Trump.
A message from the rubble of Gaza, he said, “we want peace. Please, stand with us.”
He now faces another forced evacuation, but this time, he says, he will not leave.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was Debora Patta reporting in Israel.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
